As a member of writer's groups and critique forums, you can get comments about your writing that go from one end of the spectrum to the other. The good, the bad, and all the ugly gray in between. This, unfortunately, leaves quite a bit of room for conflicting opinions.
Personally, I've received comments such as, "Your characters are alive and well-portrayed," and, "Your characters are too flat and unemotional", on the same story. I understand that not everyone will like every story, but how can you have such extremes on one piece? How do you know if one commenter is just saying they liked it because they don't want to be harsh, and maybe the other commenter was having a bad day and hated everything they read that particular day?
Here's another scenario: Someone says, "Your writing is excellent, the structure is correct, and the characters are vivid, but I just don't care for the story content. It's not something I would read and/or buy." On the one hand, that's a compliment. On the other hand, it's a real bummer.
So my question is...
For the writers out there: How do keep your sanity when you receive conflicting comments on your work? How do you decide what to change, based on feedback, and what not to?
For the readers out there: What's more important to you, style or content? When you read, what keeps you reading, the author's wording, or the story itself? A combination of both?
~Lydia
I think you have to look at what's being said and objectively analyze it. Look at your work, and the critique, and try to see what the person is saying. Does it resonate with you? Do you see their point? Maybe you will, maybe you won't.
ReplyDeleteI can only speak for myself, but I tend to ignore the "loved it" or other "fluffy" comments. Sure, those are a nice stroke to the ego (and what writer doesn't like that?), but they're not valuable. I'm looking for confirmation of what doesn't work. I tend to have a good idea already, but I want to know if my inner editor is getting out of hand, or if there's an actual problem. (And help tightening up sentence structure never hurts.)
It's a fine line we tread as writers, looking at our work objectively without being too negative. And it can be frightening to get a critique that rips apart something that you thought wasn't that bad.
My advice is not to panic, and not to dismiss it as the critiquer having a bad day. Once the shock has worn off, look over the critique again and try to see it through their eyes.
But, really, what it comes down to is that it's your story, and you should change only what you want to change, regardless what any of your critiquers say. We're not professionals, and we're not the writers of your story. You hold that position, and therefore you get to make the decisions.
As a reader: content and style go hand in hand. I loved the story of Maximum Ride (John Patterson) but I won't read the sequel because I hated his style. The story kept me reading, even though the style annoyed me. The story (and characters) have to drive the book for me, and the author's style can't jar me from the experience. But I tend to read as a writer, so I pick up on author idiosyncrasies a little more readily than an average reader (e.g., noticing "was" and other passive constructions irritate me to no end! :) ).
Love the visitor counter, btw. :)
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question:
It depends on both who gave the review, and the tone of it. If I know the critter and their abilities pretty well, then I'm more apt to accept what they said then someone whose review is chock full of errors on its known.
Also, if I'm receiving conflicting responses, then I try to base it on what my "gut" agrees with. Often, my Inner Editor knows what I need to fix, it's just that I have not consciously realized that. When someone says something, and deep down inside I feel like--yeah, that's right--then I'll follow that change, even if it conflicts with something else.
Because, to me, at its deepest level, this is your story, and not theirs.
I agree with the comments above. When you've received critiques from both ends of the spectrum, you can either A) go for a happy middle or B) go with what you think is right.
ReplyDeleteAs for what keeps me reading, it would definitely be the content, but an annoying (or horrible) style can completely ruin a good book. I think style and content rely on each other, and without one, usually the other flounders. If that makes sense.
I always go with my gut when it comes to reader's comments. If what they say rings true to me, and I always keep an open mind, then I experiment and see if what they say works. If it doesn't ring true then I ignore it.
ReplyDeleteBoth style and content is important to me. Of course, a good story is always what I look for but if the style in which it's written irritates me, is sloppy, or makes me doubt the sincerity of the writer, then I don't read on. I want a style of writing that is skilled and sincere.
As a writer, I try to approach critiques from the point of view of "the impression that reader got." This means that I'm actually analyzing the critiques I'm getting, rather than just taking them. I enjoy compliments, but prefer complaints because they're more constructive. Instead of "fixing" problems that are pointed out, I try to ask myself, "What was it in my text that gave this reader that impression?" I can often remove the possibility of a particular gripe without fundamentally altering what I'm trying to do, and without doing precisely what the critiquer thinks I should. I also try to keep faith in myself, and to say that just because one reader says I can't fix a problem doesn't mean I can't fix it. It just means that person doesn't see the way for me to fix it. Which is very different.
ReplyDeleteHaha. I am going to answer the part you mentioned something about sanity in. INCOMING RANT!
ReplyDeleteFirst off, the initial reaction of anyone putting themselves out there for others to view is to be defensive. After the initial, "Who do they..." phase, I reread and evaluate.
I look at 3 things when I am reading critiques: grammar, structure, and if they liked the story. I want to know how to fix it, and if they would read it.
Unless I really know the reveiwer/critter, I tend to ignore stylistic changes.
If it's someone that you can tell lacks the ability to recognize their rectum from the proverbial hole in the ground (or, more likely, they have obvious rectal/cranial inversion syndrome), I tend to treat it like a
Record Contract. Skip to 4:45 and watch through 5:00. =) Might as well be called, "Worthless critiques".
While I'm kind of cranky anyway, I may as well mention you have to be VERY careful using sites like Critters. Critters. Is. Worthless. The people who run it do a very good job, and I'm not coming down on them personally. A site is only as good as its members though, and there are some absolutely clueless people on there.
Best analogy I can use is the Little League coach that knows EVERYTHING about hitting a baseball that hikes up his pants to argue with the dad that knows EVERYTHING about hitting a baseball hiking up his own pants, and neither actually knows the proper way to sit on a toilet seat let alone which end of a bat to hold, so the kid is taught garbage, hits like garbage, and quits.
Hurray to the "critiquers" out there that cannot form a complete sentence, yet nod approvingly at their keyboard after tell you your own character wouldn't act like that in that situation. If only safes falling from windows were less random.
If you review on Critters, then good. This has nothing to do with each individual member. Only the ones that suck.
Case in point: one critter said that a scifi story needed either a time-travel element or that it should all have been a dream at the end. It had nothing to do with either.
You know what happens if you're a new writer that sends a story anywhere that has either of those elements?
An (expletive) record contract. Hopefully it was done electronically, so they can't stuff it into the SASE you included and get it back to you.
By the way, I love my "rectal/cranial inversion syndrome" line. I'll be using it again.
/rant.
Forgot the show/tell, passive/active fight. Good writing includes both.
ReplyDeleteLots of good comments here. Thanks for the input, guys! :)
ReplyDeleteAs a writer, I have to force myself not to comment too quickly if a critique sounds too harsh. The extra time allows me to reflect on the intent. Sometimes the comment was entirely necessary and well worded, but I read it in the wrong mind-state. (Objectivity tends to go out the window when feeling moody. Bad time to review comments.)
ReplyDeleteAs a reader, I tend to lean heavier on content, rather than style. Characters are what keep the story alive for me long after I've finished reading. I don't remember how things were worded, but I do remember dynamic characters that snagged my emotions and pulled me in. The Unexpected Mrs. Pollifax could have been written much better, but I keep going back to read again about the 80 year old woman bored with old lady activities who goes to volunteer as a spy for the CIA. She keeps the plot moving and the other characters on their toes, very much unexpected.
I comment on both style and content when something comes to my attention, even when it isn't until after someone else points it out. I comment because I think I know something that will actually help, and I back up with examples whenever possible. Sometimes knowing why a comment is made is just as valuable as the comment itself. Sometimes I do put in fluffy comments, like when I can't pick out something specific to say but want let the writer know I'm still following along. But most of the time, I try to at least point out one sentence that did or did not work and why.
I'm not sure I can even comment since I've never had any of my writing critiqued. But I'm wondering,... if you are proud of your writing, or it is a piece that you have conviction in and like Jai said, if your gut tells you it's right, does it matter if you have a negative review? I guess it goes back to the saying, "you never can please all of the people all of the time".I think that when you write, it's YOUR work, your style, your art. Whoes to say it's wrong?
ReplyDeleteSince I'm too much of a coward to submit any of my work, I guess that's easy for me to say. If anything, I sure am learning from everyone's comments.
Jennifer
if you are proud of your writing, or it is a piece that you have conviction in and like Jai said, if your gut tells you it's right, does it matter if you have a negative review?
ReplyDeleteIn the long run, no, it doesn't matter. But when you get that initial punch, it stings. You're dazed for a bit, not sure which side is up (what will help you improve) and which side is down (the stuff you should ignore). Once the stars disappear, you can see things more clearly and decide what to do.
Submitting your writing isn't really about being brave. I get the jitters EVERY TIME I submit something to an editor or post a piece of something for critique, like a big nancy-pants. I don't really think it gets easier the more you do it; I think you just learn how to deal with the nerves and the pain, but they're still there.
These are good questions. I consider ALL the feedback I receive, but I take into account someone's expertise and tastes. If people are snagging on the same spot but have different fixes, I at least know that spot NEEDS fixing. At a certain point you have to look at trends in the comments. You always have to look at your vision.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I just wrote a comment that I think I deleted--I don't know what I did. I apologize if I commented twice! Feel free to delete it if I did!